The key to understanding the question posed is the word "Former". It means "Was", "Has been", "In the past". We are persecuting these people, old men not capable of doing any harm to anyone, to "Set right what once went wrong". When were we given the right to say, "You watched this happen, therefore you're guilty of it"? When were God's laws, his powers, his JUDGMENT placed in our hands?
I'm not saying let bygones be bygones. If you want to blame Old Mr. Wriggley for Commander Stragganoff's murders, because he's the security guard for the Commander's business, then go ahead. If you feel VINDICTIVE enough to simply point the finger at anyone remotely involved in the atrocities of the Holocaust and say, "HERE HE IS! HERE IS THE MAN RESPONSIBLE! LET THE DAMNED BE JUDGED AND MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEIR SOULS!" then please, be my guest. It's your right. It's also THEIR right to live in peace. These men are being held responsible, and are being PUNISHED for something they MIGHT HAVE done 60 years ago. Sure, the Nazi's took great and detailed recordings of what they did, but did they record "Corporal Sammy Jenkins hit Jew 1138 with a celery stick" on a daily basis? Probably not, but I'm no expert (yet).
The fact is, you're wanting to send these old men, who are nearly on their deathbeds, through the stress of trials and deportation simply to appease a minority? Am I saying that they were right in being Nazis? No, far from it. But if you want to accuse and prosecute these men of racial prejudice so you can throw them out of the country, then prosecute myself as well because GOD FORBID I have a single thought that's not Politically Correct. If you're going to do this, then Throw out EVERYONE who's a member of the American Nazi party, everyone who's a member of the KKK. Because once you start down this path, why just half ass it and quit with just the old men? Why not the Young Men and women who can potentially HURT the people the hate? Why not become a nation where you can live in fear of a Government that will prosecute anyone they deem unfit for the nation? I mean, really - Who doesn't want that?!
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Wow Aaron!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with this blog 100%. You chose the perfect words, perfect phrases and made incredible points. I love when you said "When were God's laws, his powers, his JUDGMENT placed in our hands?" I would recommend everyone to read your blog...it was amazing. Great work.
ReplyDeleteThank ye, Kindly.
ReplyDeleteI agree in some sense but must ask you...
ReplyDeleteYes these men are old and detoriating but are they not responsibile for their actions? Be it may that their actions took place 60 plus years ago...should they still be accountable for what they did. And if they shouldn't be held accountable then why don't we let every murder who is dying in the prison system out to roam free. heck let's start with Charles manson, susan atkins(whose 62 years old and dying of brain cancer) patrica krenwinkle, lesile vanhouten and tex watson out. After all what they did was 40 years ago and they are all sick and dying.
Yes, but in those cases we know for a fact that they did things themselves because A) They wanted to and B)The Evidence supports them having personally chopped people's ears off, stabbed them 47 times, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to these cases where it was just Joe Schmoe standing guard outside of the gate, or even just the guy who rounded up the Jews on orders from Hitler himself, they didn't murder them by the thousands. That responsibility lies solely on the operators of the Gas Chambers, not the man who stood outside to make sure there was no riots.
Again, it's taking the idea of Justice and perverting it to make it seem like EVERY Nazi was to blame for what happened, and EVERY Nazi PERSONALLY killed at least 62,000 "Subhumans" and casting that kind of blame on these old men who wouldn't and CAN'T hurt a fly. If you're going to strip the man's Citizenship and send him to Germany where he can "Die with the rest of his swine" because he stood outside a gate and didn't go, "Hey, this ain't right!" then what're you going to do to the men and women here in the states who FREQUENTLY beat and harass the Minority communities in our own nation? Why should they get off with 5 years in Prison when they're doing more than what some of these old men did?
I mean, it's obvious that they're going to be deported. The stats show that, and hell, one of the quotes is LITERALLY "Keep your bags packed, 'cause you won't have time to do it later." So smug and arrogant, like these men are guilty before proven innocent! I'm sorry, but that's not how our justice system is supposed to work! They have almost no evidence to support their defense because WWII Veterans are increasingly hard to come by, not to mention ones who were in THAT squad/camp, working SIDE BY SIDE these men to provide eyewitness accounts of either their Brutality or their Mercy. And the Evidence brought against them is purely circumstantial at best. "Oh, well, he was assigned to this platoon, which did this and that and the other thing. Guilt by association. We can only assume that he participated in these as well!" Last I checked, this kind of Evidence is flimsy at best and usually doesn't stand up in Court, or even MAKE IT to court. Yet that's how they're going to be deported, based in records that say he was in the army, working at such and such place from such and such time to 1945.
I hope that made sense. I'm tired as Hell, so I'm sure parts of that response are either mindless dribble or complete rambling. I apologize if that is the case.
ReplyDeleteOkay i understand to the full extent what you are saying but think of it like this...Did that man standing outside of the gas chamber...did he even try to help all of those people standing in line to die...NO. He watched, he did nothing to prevent it. He is guilty by association. (I'm hopping this makes sense...I'm really tired.lol)
ReplyDeleteBut could he have actually DONE anything? The most he can do is say "This isn't right". He doesn't have the authority to pull someone out of line and order them to do laps instead of go into the chamber. It's like the analogy I made of The Security guard - Do you throw the book at the Security Guard for Enron just because the CEOs and Execs screwed the pooch for everyone? All this guy did was sit at his desk and keep people from causing trouble in the building. By the whole "Guilt by association" logic, we should prosecute HIM for the deeds done by the Corporate Execs just as quickly and efficiently as we would to the Executives themselves. He doesn't deserve any kind of Parley or Mercy because HE WORKED FOR THE COMPANY DAMNIT! That evil sonnuva bitch!
ReplyDeleteYou have to put yourself in his shoes, too. If you're standing around watching people get filed into a room and not come out, even if you know what's happening, do you A) Object in front of about 60 people with Guns who're ordered to shoot any Political Enemies on sight or B) Try and keep yourself alive and in a Job so that your family can survive? Really, I think most if not all of us would pick B. Let's also not forget the Authority I mentioned Previously - These guys were essentially the Guys who just did what they were told, they had no real power in the military or in the government. The absolute most they could do is either Conspire against Hitler militarily (As many did, but were later found and hanged for it) or voice their objections which wasn't exactly a good idea either when you think about self-preservation.
One point:
ReplyDelete(and I haven't read the end of your blog or the other comments yet)
There is a B I G difference between being 'politically correct' and perhaps being part of and culpable to the mass murder of millions of people.
--k
PS --shouldn't anyone/ someone take responsiblity? Who? What about being an 'accessory to the crime?'
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll explain my choice of "Politically Correct" first off - I didn't want to give people the impression that I'm a Die-Hard Racist who screams "White Power" at any chance he gets by posting something along those lines. But I *AM* guilty of being a racist, albeit not one who hates anyone of a different race. Me, I live next door to stereotypes (Literally. Every morning I wake up to "YEA NIGGA WUT?! HA HAAA!" from my Next Door Neighbors) so I have a negative disposition on many black people. However, it's usually one of those, "Please not here" moments which are usually dismissed within a few moments of knowing a person - Usually.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, taking responsibility for a crime such as the one they're being accused of is one thing. Its a whole other ballgame when they're being cast into a light that's currently shining on anyone related to the Nazis. These people are (I hate to revert to the Manson example I shot down previously, but it works in this case) essentially Linda Kasabian. They were there, they partially helped in the sense that they were there and that they did things they didn't necessarily want to do in order to stay alive and help provide support for their families, but they were not guilty of the murders.
Can you say that they were not guilty of murder even though research has proven at a certain level within the Nazi regime one had to know what was going on around him?
ReplyDeleteThis is the case for at least one of the men mentioned in the article. Additionally--again to play the advocate here as my position dictates--you (and others) keep repeating...'they didn't know; they were just there..etc..' How do you know this?? Think carefully here as perhaps there are survivors who can point to one of these men and say, .."I remember when you did this..." What then? I bring this to light because there have been similar cases where this has happened. This was the case of another potential deporte I read about a few months ago. He had the same rhetoric you mention, "so long ago, I didn't ...I couldn't ...I didn't know.." until one survivor was found that said..."I could never forget the horror you promoted, what you did, or how evil you were.."
What about the victims? Earlier you call them a minority that (basically) shouldn't be listened to. Harsh, since you never walked in their shoes. Now, don't misunderstand my critique. It is my job to get you thinking, analyzing, and writing. You can have any opinion you want here; I am just trying to allow you to allow yourself to find your best work. Moving on--
Now, you've done a good job (you all have) of supporting the guards. Argue the flip side now, please.
--k :-)
"First they came for the communists,
ReplyDeleteand I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists,
and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
--Pastor Martin Niemöller
This quote (so kindly posted by Kristi) brings me back to my original point. Those guards knew what was happening and the evil they were promoting. They chose not to speak out. Not because their fear but because they agreed with what they were doing. They knew that they were condeming millions of people to death. Instead of speaking out for those who couldn't speak for themselves they chose silence. And look at the situation now...No one is left speak for them.